Megasquirt standalone - No Extra hardware- NOW HIGH RES .035ms vs .1ms

gurov · 2008-08-14 00:12:55

UPDATE: this is how you build one: http://myspecv.com/f/t165271-building-t … of-it.html

That's right. this is a fuel only installation of megasquirt 1, pcv v2.2 (the cheapest one $139) with a 2.5 bar built in maf

no external trigger required, this one is driven by the stock ignition coil signals, effectively. you retain all of the temperature sensors, and don't lose any comforts, cruise control still stays, should be NO check engine lights

order this if you're handy with a soldering iron, and save 100 bucks: http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/mega … -p-46.html
if you're a cheapass, and don't care about expandability or having the best board, and want to get the cheapest shit, $140 gets you a v2.2 pcb with ms1 processor, again, you put it together: http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/mega … -p-28.html

look around on the site for ms2 processors upgrades/kits.

prebuilt units:

$240 - v2.2 pcb - http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/mega … -p-34.html
$330 - v3.0 pcb - http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/mega … -p-56.html

here's the modifications needed for the boards to pick up the signal from the coils:

v2.2 pcb:

remove D5 - install straight wire jumper in place
remove D10 - install straight wire jumper in place
remove D8 - install 1k ohm resistor in place

jumper XG1 and XG2 (this provides ground)

v3.0 pcb

remove D1 - install straight wire in place
remove D2 - install straight wire in place
remove R12 - install 1k ohm resistor in place
remove C30 - leave empty
jumper XG1 to XG2 (this provides ground)
jumper TACHSEL to OPTOIN (this is by the DB37)
jumper OPTOOUT to TSEL (this goes to cpu)

--------------------

from the coilpacks:

Code::

coil1 ---|>|---\ 
coil2 ---|>|----\_____ TO TACH IN 
coil3 ---|>|----/
coil4 ---|>|---/



--|>|--- DIODE

some pics:

the tach hookup to my ignition coils, there's only two there because i already have another two diodes under the hood, effectively making the whole thing waste spark. in a stock ECU specv case there would be 4 diodes, one from every ignition coil this gives 4 events per engine rotation, just what the box needs !

dtec fc map completely zeroed out, no longer needed !

set some basic stuff in megatune:

disable all the codes types, this makes it fuel only, and one injection per event

started up and idling:

set the rev limit

idling at 15.5 afr, just cause i can:

how about 12:1 for idle:

rev limiter set to fuel only, can see the launch control selection below.

testing the revlimiter at 2000 rpm (launch control as well)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX4_AfYDk8Y

so yeah... went from all external sensors, to no external sensors, cheaper, easier installation and less wires and less shit to deal with.

darsondriss · 2008-08-14 01:42:19

test mule alpha signing on

speedjunkie · 2008-08-14 03:25:08

gurov your the man, could this theoretically be adapted to a qg motor?

gurov · 2008-08-14 03:27:26

speedjunkie wrote:
gurov your the man, could this theoretically be adapted to a qg motor?

yes, this would work on any coil on plug motor, theoretically

speedjunkie · 2008-08-14 03:28:22

mother freaking sweet, if you could please pm me the steps, a sorta of how to. Also if you could "dumb it down" that would also be great

gurov · 2008-08-14 03:31:02

speedjunkie wrote:
mother freaking sweet, if you could please pm me the steps, a sorta of how to. Also if you could "dumb it down" that would also be great

eh... you have to modify the timing pickup circuitry slightly to make it accept a +5v pulse and use 4 diodes from the ignition signals from the ecu to the tach input on the megasquirt.

i could do a couple of introductory cost + shipping boxes for people to get the interest up in this and to get people tuning on these if you'd rather not do the modifications yourself or build the box yourself

sticky667 · 2008-08-14 03:34:09

so no sticky how to info?

gurov · 2008-08-14 03:36:33

what would you be looking for ? i mean i can post the schematic of the modifications that has to be done, but you have to know where the pins are and have put one of these together. i'm not sure if any of the prebuilt boxes would be able to do something like this straight up.

speedjunkie · 2008-08-14 03:36:38

gurov wrote:
speedjunkie wrote:
mother freaking sweet, if you could please pm me the steps, a sorta of how to. Also if you could "dumb it down" that would also be great
eh... you have to modify the timing pickup circuitry slightly to make it accept a +5v pulse and use 4 diodes from the ignition signals from the ecu to the tach input on the megasquirt.

i could do a couple of introductory cost + shipping boxes for people to get the interest up in this and to get people tuning on these if you'd rather not do the modifications yourself or build the box yourself

how much?

speedjunkie · 2008-08-14 03:38:58

curious: what is that purple box?

gurov · 2008-08-14 03:39:28

speedjunkie wrote:
gurov wrote:
speedjunkie wrote:
mother freaking sweet, if you could please pm me the steps, a sorta of how to. Also if you could "dumb it down" that would also be great
eh... you have to modify the timing pickup circuitry slightly to make it accept a +5v pulse and use 4 diodes from the ignition signals from the ecu to the tach input on the megasquirt.

i could do a couple of introductory cost + shipping boxes for people to get the interest up in this and to get people tuning on these if you'd rather not do the modifications yourself or build the box yourself
how much?

140 is the base v2.2 board + ms1 chip + shipping + 20 bucks for the harness/connectors/extra parts etc. i could only do a couple of these so i'm not getting burried in it.

you need a laptop, wideband, and some wiring skills to install this.

you would be cutting all 4 injector wires, tapping all 4 ignition wires, tapping tps, coolant temp, air temp, ground and +12v. as well as hooking up the wideband box to the ms1 box

gurov · 2008-08-14 03:40:06

speedjunkie wrote:
curious: what is that purple box?

j&s ultrasafeguard, it listens to the knock sensor and retards timing in the cylinder that just knocked on the next event. it also does boost-based retard. with a twist of a knob

i was using that because it brings the ignition wires inside the cabin for me, so it was easy to do this test inside than to go back to the autosport harness and tear that apart.

again, 2 wires because the other ones are already combined at the harness to do waste spark.

gurov · 2008-08-14 03:44:38

or if you want to put the box together yourself, i'll gladly tell you how to modify it to take ignition signal in

speedjunkie · 2008-08-14 03:50:25

gurov wrote:
or if you want to put the box together yourself, i'll gladly tell you how to modify it to take ignition signal in

well if you provide schematics, and a step by step process I can do it, also i have installed a megasquirt on neon so installing it/tapping into wires will not be a problem.

gurov · 2008-08-14 03:57:49

speedjunkie wrote:
gurov wrote:
or if you want to put the box together yourself, i'll gladly tell you how to modify it to take ignition signal in
well if you provide schematics, and a step by step process I can do it, also i have installed a megasquirt on neon so installing it/tapping into wires will not be a problem.

sure:

this is the optoisolator that drives the pin IRQ pin on the motorolla chip for RPM and event trigger.

this is v2.2:
to modify it for positive pulse you need to send XG1 to ground
and top green will go to the tach input that XG1 wen to, instead of +12 (D9)

for pcb 3.0 it looks like it's actually done with jumpers and already thought through.

you would jumper XG 2 and XG1 (sending XG1 to ground)

and jumper optoin to tachsel

then you need the custom firmware that reads spec temperature sensors.

then you need 4 diodes going from all 4 ignition outputs to tach in on the megasquirt.

then you need to configure megatune to have no code selected for ignition pickup:

gurov · 2008-08-14 03:59:53

hmmm
now that i look at the schematic, looks like i made the modifications to go against what i did here...
so it's likely that the stock configuration of the megasquirt would work for this with positive pulses (xg1 to xg2) and optoin to tach sel on both PCBs.

heh, that was slightly counterproductive, oh well

speedjunkie · 2008-08-14 04:02:28

gurov wrote:
hmmm
now that i look at the schematic, looks like i made the modifications to go against what i did here...
so it's likely that the stock configuration of the megasquirt would work for this with positive pulses (xg1 to xg2) and optoin to tach sel on both PCBs.

heh, that was slightly counterproductive, oh well

your openness on your "mistakes" or "counterproductions" have me perplexed......

gurov · 2008-08-14 04:05:15

speedjunkie wrote:
gurov wrote:
hmmm
now that i look at the schematic, looks like i made the modifications to go against what i did here...
so it's likely that the stock configuration of the megasquirt would work for this with positive pulses (xg1 to xg2) and optoin to tach sel on both PCBs.

heh, that was slightly counterproductive, oh well
your openness on your "mistakes" or "counterproductions" have me perplexed......

well, the reason i have done the original modification to the optoisolator is to be able to use the stock nissan sensors.

the weird part about these sensors is that if you flip it 180 degrees, the signal inverts. this let me position the sensor with eyelet towards the engine, not away from it, so the bracket didn't end up being so freaking long and extending towards the wheel.

now that i think about it, i could take a stock megasquirt and flip the sensor 180 degrees and it would probably work with very little modification.

meh, oh well. point is. this worked. i'm going to tune it more tomorrow and actually try to take the car out and drive it around out of boost to get that part of the map tuned and logged for megalogviewer.

speedjunkie · 2008-08-14 04:11:19

so let me get this straight your not using a external crank trigger wheel, your using the signal of each coil firing to simulate a "tach signal" correct?

gurov · 2008-08-14 04:12:30

speedjunkie wrote:
so let me get this straight your not using a external crank trigger wheel, your using the signal of each coil firing to simulate a "tach signal" correct?

effectively making it seem like you have a distributor with a single coil that's firing 4 times in 2 revolutions.

you are correct. the secret sauce are the diodes, i would suppose.

speedjunkie · 2008-08-14 04:13:21

what you mean the secret sauce, from what i know of diodes is that it is a electronic one way check valve....

gurov · 2008-08-14 04:14:57

speedjunkie wrote:
what you mean the secret sauce, from what i know of diodes is that it is a electronic one way check valve....

right, but in this case you use them to create a single signal out of the 4 ignition signals.

it's just that i don't think i've seen this mentioned anywhere in the megasquirt manuals. maybe i'm just dumb

speedjunkie · 2008-08-14 04:17:01

gurov wrote:
speedjunkie wrote:
what you mean the secret sauce, from what i know of diodes is that it is a electronic one way check valve....
right, but in this case you use them to create a single signal out of the 4 ignition signals.

it's just that i don't think i've seen this mentioned anywhere in the megasquirt manuals. maybe i'm just dumb

I dont think "dumb" would be the exact word I would use. Do you frequent the megasquirt forums? They might be interested in the modifications you have done to get your tach signal from four separate coils, hell they might even put it in the mega-manual itself.

gurov · 2008-08-14 04:19:12

speedjunkie wrote:
gurov wrote:
speedjunkie wrote:
what you mean the secret sauce, from what i know of diodes is that it is a electronic one way check valve....
right, but in this case you use them to create a single signal out of the 4 ignition signals.

it's just that i don't think i've seen this mentioned anywhere in the megasquirt manuals. maybe i'm just dumb
I dont think "dumb" would be the exact word I would use. Do you frequent the megasquirt forums? They might be interested in the modifications you have done to get your tach signal from four separate coils, hell they might even put it in the mega-manual itself.

nah, i haven't really looked too much into those forums.

i just had the idea last night and was able to test it by driving one megasquirt with a 36-1 wheel, and tapping into that box's ignition outputs to drive another megasquirt... that's how i pretty much knew that this would work, today i went out and started the car with this. now that i really think about it, i bet they've thought about this and if i told them, they'd be like " ADUHHH"

speedjunkie · 2008-08-14 04:19:33

could your modifications also be used when trying to implement spark control ?

gurov · 2008-08-14 04:22:25

speedjunkie wrote:
could your modifications also be used when trying to implement spark control ?

no, it's not really clear which cylinder is firing from this because it's 4 signals with no distinction as to which one is which.

so while for fuel it doesn't really matter, cause you spray at a closed valve all the time, but next time you inject the valve is open, and the fuel that's hanging out on the walls get sucked in eventually.

but for spark, this would matter more, because you need to be able to tell at least tdc, so you're not firing at bottom dead cylinder as you've taken in a full breath of fueled air, potentially under pretty heavy pressure... enough to ignite and come out of the intake

speedjunkie · 2008-08-14 04:22:26

gurov wrote:
speedjunkie wrote:
gurov wrote:

right, but in this case you use them to create a single signal out of the 4 ignition signals.

it's just that i don't think i've seen this mentioned anywhere in the megasquirt manuals. maybe i'm just dumb
I dont think "dumb" would be the exact word I would use. Do you frequent the megasquirt forums? They might be interested in the modifications you have done to get your tach signal from four separate coils, hell they might even put it in the mega-manual itself.
nah, i haven't really looked too much into those forums.

i just had the idea last night and was able to test it by driving one megasquirt with a 36-1 wheel, and tapping into that box's ignition outputs to drive another megasquirt... that's how i pretty much knew that this would work, today i went out and started the car with this. now that i really think about it, i bet they've thought about this and if i told them, they'd be like " ADUHHH"

you never know, it is also a good place to get ideas like this and talk through trouble you may have in the future. also where are you getting all these extra megasquirt boxes?

speedjunkie · 2008-08-14 04:24:47

gurov wrote:
speedjunkie wrote:
could your modifications also be used when trying to implement spark control ?
no, it's not really clear which cylinder is firing from this because it's 4 signals with no distinction as to which one is which.

so while for fuel it doesn't really matter, cause you spray at a closed valve all the time, but next time you inject the valve is open, and the fuel that's hanging out on the walls get sucked in eventually.

but for spark, this would matter more, because you need to be able to tell at least tdc, so you're not firing at bottom dead cylinder as you've taken in a full breath of fueled air, potentially under pretty heavy pressure... enough to ignite and come out of the intake

I bet someone on the megasquirt forums would be able to figure out a way or another set-up that still doesnt need a external trigger wheel and could be used for fuel and spark.

gurov · 2008-08-14 04:24:58

speedjunkie wrote:
gurov wrote:
speedjunkie wrote:

I dont think "dumb" would be the exact word I would use. Do you frequent the megasquirt forums? They might be interested in the modifications you have done to get your tach signal from four separate coils, hell they might even put it in the mega-manual itself.
nah, i haven't really looked too much into those forums.

i just had the idea last night and was able to test it by driving one megasquirt with a 36-1 wheel, and tapping into that box's ignition outputs to drive another megasquirt... that's how i pretty much knew that this would work, today i went out and started the car with this. now that i really think about it, i bet they've thought about this and if i told them, they'd be like " ADUHHH"
you never know, it is also a good place to get ideas like this and talk through trouble you may have in the future. also where are you getting all these extra megasquirt boxes?

when i was installing heidi's EMS Pro, i sort of built 3 megasquirt boxes, it was the only way i could really test modifications i was about to do to the emspro, cause i had to replace ems pro's optoisolator circuit due to the polarity of the damn sensor that nissan uses. emspro folks weren't too happy with that and yelled warranty, but whatever.

but they do come in handy, so far i've gotten the spec to work with the external 36-1 wheel on the 3.0 pcb ms1, and off the ignition signals with 2.2 pcb ms1.

i've yet to plug the ms2 3.0 pcb in and crank it, but i have a feeling it will just start up and run like the others.

speedjunkie · 2008-08-14 04:26:29

that should be the real goal, getting ms2 to work because it is better in every sense

gurov · 2008-08-14 04:28:05

speedjunkie wrote:
that should be the real goal, getting ms2 to work because it is better in every sense

i'm going for cheap here for the people. i know the ms2 will work. i've tested the thermometers already and such. it's configured, just need to plug it in and fire it up

goal for the next couple of weeks will be to get this fuel only thing going. i know it would benefit a lot of the turbo folks that are sick of the stock ecu doing stupid shit with the tune every couple of weeks.

speedjunkie · 2008-08-14 04:30:46

gurov wrote:
speedjunkie wrote:
that should be the real goal, getting ms2 to work because it is better in every sense
i'm going for cheap here for the people. i know the ms2 will work. i've tested the thermometers already and such. it's configured, just need to plug it in and fire it up

goal for the next couple of weeks will be to get this fuel only thing going. i know it would benefit a lot of the turbo folks that are sick of the stock ecu doing stupid shit with the tune every couple of weeks.

and it will also be easier to tune with the autotune abilities, it will also get rid of the need for a datalogger, and a controller for meth/water injection. it can also be used by the nitrous people as a nitrous controller

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Megasquirt standalone - No Extra hardware- NOW HIGH RES .035ms vs .1ms

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gurov wrote:

speedjunkie wrote:

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speedjunkie wrote:

gurov wrote:

speedjunkie wrote:

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speedjunkie wrote:

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gurov wrote:

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speedjunkie wrote:

gurov wrote:

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gurov wrote:

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speedjunkie wrote:

gurov wrote:

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speedjunkie wrote:

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gurov wrote:

speedjunkie wrote:

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speedjunkie wrote:

gurov wrote:

speedjunkie wrote:

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speedjunkie wrote:

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Re: Megasquirt standalone - No Extra hardware- NOW HIGH RES .035ms vs .1ms

gurov wrote:

speedjunkie wrote: