Make personal sticky

Yogi B · 2008-07-27 17:49:13

We have talked many times here about solving
“THE HOP PROBLEM”

We have all mentioned to buddies
How the “the word is”
That the following fixes work
m.m.i.’s
Replace subframe bushings with steel washers
Engine dampners
Light weight wheels
Better tires
Coil overs
Drag radials or slicks

But do they really?

I was going to the drags anyway mostly to relieve the frustration at the long wait for my project completion
And to get used to the procedure of going through the water box and doing burnouts
So
Why not try to fix the hop too

I thought I would try a shot gun approach.
Use every thing in the list at once see if any thing works at all.
Unfortunately I did not have in my hand the coil overs or wheels to mount the slicks
But I did have
Mmi’s
Sub frame washers
Light weight wheels w/ poor tires mounted
Already in the garage
Would that be enough?
I decided to try it

I had 225/45/17 Kumo AST tires mounted on 15lb kosei ts wheels already on the car
The tires are 25.1 in tall. too big for a stock spec like this one and very slippery.
And at 24lb per tire kills much of the advantage of the kosei’s
Resulting in a wheel/tire weight loss of only 2 lb per wheel.
I put the subframe washers in and the mmi’s were already there.
We were set to try it out
A few passes on a deserted road and we are ready for the track

The plan was to make ten runs
Five trying to provoke wheel hop by
Sudden unloading of the clutch at high rpm at the start
w/high tire pressures To save the tires from chunking
And five normal pases at 2500rpm with 25 lb in the tires
Ignoring rx times and not trying to hook the car up
Just smooth clutch release and smooth throttle application
But holding it floored
and banging shifts mostly just to relieve frustration

Its Friday I fill my air tank, empty the trunk
Hop in the car start her up and discover my wife has used my car and filled the tank with gas for me.
How nice any other day, but today
I get stuck in traffic on rt 85 due to an accident and I sit in traffic in 92 degree coolness [air on in the car] for an hour and a half
By the time I get to the inspection station at Atlanta dragway
It’s too hot to open my hood with out gloves and the pavement is so hot you can’t touch it
I enter the staging lanes, it’s a very long line
Of course, it begins to drizzle but unbelievably it gets hotter
After 1/2 hour pause I get to make my first run
36 lb in the tires

I roll into the dreaded water box area pull up the handbrake
and let’er burn
Now we’re having fun, she jumps to the right I’ll have to remember that
I pull into the burnout area and smoke’em so hard the car fills with smoke
I stage it[slightly to the left] at 5,000rpm but let it slip to about 4,500rpm and quickly but smoothly get off the clutch and floor it
The tires explode in smoke; it slides very slowly towards the tree
Seeming to make little forward progress
It’s spinning so fast I hit the rev limiter and slam second gear
We are now underway in what feels like slow-motion
It straightens out and just before the shift to third starts to pull
Slam third its still spinning but beginning to go
Fourth and we are free of wheel spin
Thru the lights its reading 85mph on the speedo
The whole time smooth and hop free
60ft times 2.6
10.3 in the 1/8
15.9/86 in the ¼

An hour wait or more and the plan goes out the window
Instead of five runs like that, I decide on one and move on to more normal runs
I drop the tire pressure to 25lbs
Starting line rpm to 2500
Still just smooth clutch release and floor it, no attempt to hook it up
Skip the water box
Very short burn out less than 1 sec, just a short burst to clean the tires
Stage and launch
This is really fun
It burns excessively in first but catches in second
It runs smooth and straight no hops
2.4sec 60ft time
10.1 1/8 mile
15.77/87mph in the ¼

over an hour later
I get my final run for the evening
I tried to make this run the same as the previous run but I lifted a little off the gas just for a moment on the shift to second by habit
So it began to hook up, just a little
That small lift resulted in
15.69/88mph
with the same
2.4 60ft time
still smooth as silk

20 bucks for three runs is ridiculous

What seems to work here in my opinion

1] gurovs subframe washer idea [thank you]
2] motor mount inserts
3] if on a budget forget the rest

Now if we get info on about 100 or so runs
any volunteers
We will know

Its 93 degrees and so humid it begins to rain as I hit a now clear rt 85 for the drive home
Thinking
We got it

Next test hopefully with v6 and full slicks

It really tickled me to blast down the track with no concern for ether rt or et
I felt like I was driving an early muscle car on the street tires of that day
It’s such a pleasure w/o the hop

Last edited by Yogi B (2008-07-28 15:28:38)

Black04SpecV · 2008-07-27 18:07:40

I have hardly any wheel hop issues. The key when launching the car is to slowly, slowly slip the clutch. Its hard on the clutch but a best way how to launch a specV.

I can't even remember when I wheel hopped last time. But again I hardly race or launch from dead stop. MMI's combined with Gurov's wheel hop aid do the job pretty well.

Yogi B · 2008-07-27 18:49:58

Black04SpecV wrote:
I have hardly any wheel hop issues. The key when launching the car is to slowly, slowly slip the clutch. Its hard on the clutch but a best way how to launch a specV.

I can't even remember when I wheel hopped last time. But again I hardly race or launch from dead stop. MMI's combined with Gurov's wheel hop aid do the job pretty well.

"MMI's combined with Gurov's wheel hop aid do the job pretty well."

I think that’s all we need

If we can get enough people to try the combo and report back at all power levels with and with out drag tires
We may have this officially solved.

This is a major concern for me; I like to take it to the track, often.

Last edited by Yogi B (2008-07-27 18:52:44)

Black04SpecV · 2008-07-28 11:34:28

Yogi B wrote:
Black04SpecV wrote:
I have hardly any wheel hop issues. The key when launching the car is to slowly, slowly slip the clutch. Its hard on the clutch but a best way how to launch a specV.

I can't even remember when I wheel hopped last time. But again I hardly race or launch from dead stop. MMI's combined with Gurov's wheel hop aid do the job pretty well.
"MMI's combined with Gurov's wheel hop aid do the job pretty well."

I think that’s all we need

If we can get enough people to try the combo and report back at all power levels with and with out drag tires
We may have this officially solved.

This is a major concern for me; I like to take it to the track, often.

Major issue for me is when I hit boost in 1st, 2nd & 3rd gear it was not bad at 6psi, BUT at 10psi it was crazy I couldn't go WOT in 1st & 2nd... Lots of times I get mad wheel spin all the way from 3.5k rpm to redline. I just ease off the throttle to compensate...

I'd also put around 22psi in your front tires when you are drag racing. Tire inflated to 22psi will be able to compensate for wheel hop more than a tire inflated to 36psi...

Last edited by Black04SpecV (2008-07-28 11:35:52)

Yogi B · 2008-07-28 14:20:01

i think these cars esp w/ turbo qr's or vq's
have as there major problem
getting their power to the ground

sti's,evo's and such use much wider wheels and tires

imagine in a drag race situation you were able to mount on 10" wide wheels a ,24.5in diameter slick ,10.5in wide.
that would really help would it not?

if we carry that to the street then minimum tire size would be 245/40/17's on 8'' wide rims
and for the big dogs even wider tires on 9'' rims

but how to make them fit and get a suspension to utilize them
thats the question and the task

Black04SpecV · 2008-07-28 14:23:02

Yogi B wrote:
i think these cars esp w/ turbo qr's or vq's
have as there major problem
getting their power to the ground

sti's,evo's and such use much wider wheels and tires

imagine in a drag race situation you were able to mount on 10" wide wheels a ,24.5in diameter slick ,10.5in wide.
that would really help would it not?

if we carry that to the street then minimum tire size would be 245/40/17's on 8'' wide rims
and for the big dogs even wider tires on 9'' rims

but how to make them fit and get a suspension to utilize them
thats the question and the task

Sti's and EVO's are AWD...thats their major advantage.

Slicks would be awesome, BUT they are not practical on the street especially in wet conditions.

Next tires I'm getting will be 235/40/17 those should fit without rear fenders rolled. 225/45/17's are too skinny for me.

I believe somebody fit 265/40/17 tires on the SpecV, without rubbing issues. I believe it was Josh -piknockout.

Yogi B · 2008-07-28 14:40:09

Black04SpecV wrote:
Yogi B wrote:
i think these cars esp w/ turbo qr's or vq's
have as there major problem
getting their power to the ground

sti's,evo's and such use much wider wheels and tires

imagine in a drag race situation you were able to mount on 10" wide wheels a ,24.5in diameter slick ,10.5in wide.
that would really help would it not?

if we carry that to the street then minimum tire size would be 245/40/17's on 8'' wide rims
and for the big dogs even wider tires on 9'' rims

but how to make them fit and get a suspension to utilize them
thats the question and the task
Sti's and EVO's are AWD...thats their major advantage.

Slicks would be awesome, BUT they are not practical on the street especially in wet conditions.

Next tires I'm getting will be 235/40/17 those should fit without rear fenders rolled. 225/45/17's are too skinny for me.

I believe somebody fit 265/40/17 tires on the SpecV, without rubbing issues. I believe it was Josh -piknockout.

i think Josh is running 245/40/17 now. ether way he proves my point ,bigger wheels and tires are needed

225/45/17 are way to small to handle that kind of power
i think the 235/40's will be dissapointing [too small]
ask Josh he's really very helpful
in his pro-solo vid check how easily his non turbo spins those tires and those i think are 245/40's

i agree its just the biggest we can fit w/o a lot of hassle

inspected · 2008-07-28 14:40:17

dont go through the water box you dont have radials and your dragging water on your back wheels go around and pull up to the line. i never do a burn out except on my radials

Black04SpecV · 2008-07-28 14:41:25

inspected wrote:
dont go through the water box you dont have radials and your dragging water on your back wheels go around and pull up to the line. i never do a burn out except on my radials

+1 burnouts are only for slicks and drag radials. You shouldn't do a burnout with street tires.

Black04SpecV · 2008-07-28 14:42:59

Yogi B wrote:
Black04SpecV wrote:
Yogi B wrote:
i think these cars esp w/ turbo qr's or vq's
have as there major problem
getting their power to the ground

sti's,evo's and such use much wider wheels and tires

imagine in a drag race situation you were able to mount on 10" wide wheels a ,24.5in diameter slick ,10.5in wide.
that would really help would it not?

if we carry that to the street then minimum tire size would be 245/40/17's on 8'' wide rims
and for the big dogs even wider tires on 9'' rims

but how to make them fit and get a suspension to utilize them
thats the question and the task
Sti's and EVO's are AWD...thats their major advantage.

Slicks would be awesome, BUT they are not practical on the street especially in wet conditions.

Next tires I'm getting will be 235/40/17 those should fit without rear fenders rolled. 225/45/17's are too skinny for me.

I believe somebody fit 265/40/17 tires on the SpecV, without rubbing issues. I believe it was Josh -piknockout.
i think Josh is running 245/40/17 now. ether way he proves my point ,bigger wheels and tires are needed

225/45/17 are way to small to handle that kind of power
i think the 235/40's will be dissapointing [too small]
ask Josh he's really very helpful
in his pro-solo vid check how easily his non turbo spins those tires and those i think are 245/40's

i agree its just the biggest we can fit w/o a lot of hassle

I wonder If Josh has rolled rear fenders...

Yeah I might go with 245/40/17. I won't be getting new tires next spring. I should be ok to drive on my "slicks" bald Falken Ziex ZE-512 for the few months before my specV gets winterized. She won't be seeing snow this winter.

Yogi B · 2008-07-28 14:47:20

inspected wrote:
dont go through the water box you dont have radials and your dragging water on your back wheels go around and pull up to the line. i never do a burn out except on my radials

i was mostly fooling around
i have e/t slicks sitting here waiting and i was trying to experience what it will like using the slicks.
even sporting the slicks i think i will avoid the water box and just do a burnout

going thru the box made the car feel like i was trying to launch off ice
i avoided it on the 2nd and 3rd runs

Yogi B · 2008-07-28 14:50:34

Black04SpecV wrote:
Yogi B wrote:
Black04SpecV wrote:

Sti's and EVO's are AWD...thats their major advantage.

Slicks would be awesome, BUT they are not practical on the street especially in wet conditions.

Next tires I'm getting will be 235/40/17 those should fit without rear fenders rolled. 225/45/17's are too skinny for me.

I believe somebody fit 265/40/17 tires on the SpecV, without rubbing issues. I believe it was Josh -piknockout.
i think Josh is running 245/40/17 now. ether way he proves my point ,bigger wheels and tires are needed

225/45/17 are way to small to handle that kind of power
i think the 235/40's will be dissapointing [too small]
ask Josh he's really very helpful
in his pro-solo vid check how easily his non turbo spins those tires and those i think are 245/40's

i agree its just the biggest we can fit w/o a lot of hassle
I wonder If Josh has rolled rear fenders...

Yeah I might go with 245/40/17. I won't be getting new tires next spring. I should be ok to drive on my "slicks" bald Falken Ziex ZE-512 for the few months before my specV gets winterized. She won't be seeing snow this winter.

i think i saw in his write up that the fenders were rolled
he used 17x8" rims with et 42mm
those are hard to find

Black04SpecV · 2008-07-28 14:54:57

Yogi B wrote:
Black04SpecV wrote:
Yogi B wrote:

i think Josh is running 245/40/17 now. ether way he proves my point ,bigger wheels and tires are needed

225/45/17 are way to small to handle that kind of power
i think the 235/40's will be dissapointing [too small]
ask Josh he's really very helpful
in his pro-solo vid check how easily his non turbo spins those tires and those i think are 245/40's

i agree its just the biggest we can fit w/o a lot of hassle
I wonder If Josh has rolled rear fenders...

Yeah I might go with 245/40/17. I won't be getting new tires next spring. I should be ok to drive on my "slicks" bald Falken Ziex ZE-512 for the few months before my specV gets winterized. She won't be seeing snow this winter.
i think i saw in his write up that the fenders were rolled
he used 17x8" rims with et 42mm
those are hard to find

I have Rota Boost 17x7.5" rims... Will I be OK mounting 245/40/17 tire on them?

Yogi B · 2008-07-28 15:13:31

According to tire rack specs
It takes a 8-9.5" rim width for 245's
Widest tire for 7.5" rim is the 235/40

I love Rota wheels
The boosts are gorgeous
I wanted sub zeros but they are also too narrow for the 245's
Rota rev's are 17x8 but i can't find the correct offset
where did you get yours?

any idea on the cost of rolling fenders
the tool is 260 here
http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/cat … ls_all.jsp

Last edited by Yogi B (2008-07-28 15:17:30)

Black04SpecV · 2008-07-28 15:15:24

Yogi B wrote:
According to tire rack specs
It takes a 8-9.5" rim width for 245's
Widest tire for 7.5" rim is the 235/40

I love Rota wheels
The boosts are gorgeous
I wanted sub zeros but they are also too narrow for the 245's

any idea on the cost of rolling fenders
the tool is 260 here
http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/cat … ls_all.jsp

Seems like I'll be sporting 235/40/17. I don't want to get rid of the boosts. They are great looking wheels for a great price...

Eventually I will get a dedicated set of track/autox lightweight wheels with some serious rubber, maybe when I finally sell my kidney

Last edited by Black04SpecV (2008-07-28 15:15:33)

Yogi B · 2008-07-28 15:23:19

lol

i just finished getting kosei ts wheels very light at 15lb but only 17x7, so i can only mt 225's
money down the drain.......
i didn't decide on the v6 until after i bought the wheels
now they are way too narrow

Black04SpecV · 2008-07-28 16:41:35

Yogi B wrote:
lol

i just finished getting kosei ts wheels very light at 15lb but only 17x7, so i can only mt 225's
money down the drain.......
i didn't decide on the v6 until after i bought the wheels
now they are way too narrow

Thats sucks

Yogi B · 2008-07-28 19:54:24

I got the cart before the horse

Yogi B · 2008-08-02 19:05:19

Part two
I had some problems with the fix because I did not torque the bolts to specs
Once I did that I no longer had any problems
Since that really was an assembly error I won’t go into details here.

I only got one run at Atlanta Friday night but at a local construction site I was able to make many short launches
So I feel confident in recommending this combo to truly help the hop

I didn’t just fool around this time I actually ran a Toyota supra [yes mit turbo]
So I tried really hard.
I am almost too embarrassed to tell you that I went .2 of a sec slower then I was fooling around.
But not a hop in sight

If we just look at the four runs [this is what the stat guys call sampling error]
Some interesting things come to light
We can’t talk about the hop because for these few runs it’s gone
How ever

First this week
2.377 60ft 15.947/86.31
Last week
2.417 60 ft 15.773/87.64
2.424 15.693/88.06
2.609 15.905/88.20
The temperature both nights is 93 degrees, its so humid it rains both nights shortly after the event.
Yet on one night I run .2 of a sec faster 60ft time and actually go slower in the quarter

Is it possible our lovely ecu sometimes retards the timing when you least want it to.

As for the hop aids they appear to work
We will continue to test them
Soon I hope with v6 and slicks
Or just maybe
A turbo four

I am going to try to get pics of my Honda competition and what the strip looked like up next

What were they turning?
The Honda I will post up is a true mid 11 sec car ,
But this night mid to high twelve’s
My friend’s nitrous Chevelle
Last week 13.2 this week 13.5
Do the nitrous cars suffer less cause of the cooling effects?

Interesting eh?

Yogi B · 2008-08-02 20:43:22

here are some honda pics
this is really what we have to run against, better get used to it now

and here is the strip

Board footer

2008-07-27 17:49:13 (16 weeks 4 days 22 hours 45 minutes 23 seconds) #1820136 | | view posts since this #1

thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

2008-07-27 18:07:40 (16 weeks 4 days 22 hours 26 minutes 56 seconds) #1820153 | | view posts since this #2

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

2008-07-27 18:49:58 (16 weeks 4 days 21 hours 44 minutes 38 seconds) #1820190 | | view posts since this #3

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

Black04SpecV wrote:

2008-07-28 11:34:28 (16 weeks 4 days 5 hours 8 seconds) #1820820 | | view posts since this #4

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

Yogi B wrote:

Black04SpecV wrote:

2008-07-28 14:20:01 (16 weeks 4 days 2 hours 14 minutes 35 seconds) #1820915 | | view posts since this #5

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

2008-07-28 14:23:02 (16 weeks 4 days 2 hours 11 minutes 34 seconds) #1820917 | | view posts since this #6

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

Yogi B wrote:

2008-07-28 14:40:09 (16 weeks 4 days 1 hour 54 minutes 27 seconds) #1820939 | | view posts since this #7

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

Black04SpecV wrote:

Yogi B wrote:

2008-07-28 14:40:17 (16 weeks 4 days 1 hour 54 minutes 19 seconds) #1820940 | | view posts since this #8

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

2008-07-28 14:41:25 (16 weeks 4 days 1 hour 53 minutes 11 seconds) #1820941 | | view posts since this #9

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

inspected wrote:

2008-07-28 14:42:59 (16 weeks 4 days 1 hour 51 minutes 37 seconds) #1820944 | | view posts since this #10

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

Yogi B wrote:

Black04SpecV wrote:

Yogi B wrote:

2008-07-28 14:47:20 (16 weeks 4 days 1 hour 47 minutes 16 seconds) #1820949 | | view posts since this #11

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

inspected wrote:

2008-07-28 14:50:34 (16 weeks 4 days 1 hour 44 minutes 2 seconds) #1820951 | | view posts since this #12

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

Black04SpecV wrote:

Yogi B wrote:

Black04SpecV wrote:

2008-07-28 14:54:57 (16 weeks 4 days 1 hour 39 minutes 39 seconds) #1820955 | | view posts since this #13

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

Yogi B wrote:

Black04SpecV wrote:

Yogi B wrote:

2008-07-28 15:13:31 (16 weeks 4 days 1 hour 21 minutes 5 seconds) #1820966 | | view posts since this #14

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

2008-07-28 15:15:24 (16 weeks 4 days 1 hour 19 minutes 12 seconds) #1820970 | | view posts since this #15

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

Yogi B wrote:

2008-07-28 15:23:19 (16 weeks 4 days 1 hour 11 minutes 17 seconds) #1820990 | | view posts since this #16

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

2008-07-28 16:41:35 (16 weeks 3 days 23 hours 53 minutes 1 second) #1821093 | | view posts since this #17

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

Yogi B wrote:

2008-07-28 19:54:24 (16 weeks 3 days 20 hours 40 minutes 12 seconds) #1821277 | | view posts since this #18

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

2008-08-02 19:05:19 (15 weeks 5 days 21 hours 29 minutes 17 seconds) #1826666 | | view posts since this #19

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]

2008-08-02 20:43:22 (15 weeks 5 days 19 hours 51 minutes 14 seconds) #1826714 | | view posts since this #20

Re: thank you, has been done, just read for fun[Need some help ]